Cinema Speak
April 9 2002
Rarely is a screenwriter able to establish such a presence that he/she becomes as synonymous with the identity of a certain film as the movie's director or stars. Charlie Kaufman has become just that screenwriter, due in large part to the success of 1999's Being John Malkovich, which was his first produced feature script and netted him an Academy Award nomination. In the film, Kaufman, who got his start on the Fox sitcom Get A Life that starred Chris Elliot, distinguished himself as a true innovator in the world of comedy, and with his latest effort, Human Nature, the scribe explores new terrain, while firmly stamping his unmistakable imprint.
Directed by acclaimed French music video director, Michel Gondry, Human Nature focuses on the story of Lila (Patricia Arquette), a woman who suffers from a disorder that results in excessive hair growth. In her quest to overcome this affliction, Lila becomes a best-selling author and also meets what appears to be her perfect mate in behavioral scientist Nathan (Tim Robbins). Life proceeds swimmingly until the couple stumbles across a feral man, who they name Puff (Rhys Ifans) -- a person that Nathan imprisons in his laboratory to use as a research subject, much to the ambivalence of Lila. Throw into the mix Nathan's seductive French assistant, Gabrielle (Miranda Otto), and what results is a film exceedingly original and bizarre, which contains a left-field sense of humor all its own.
Kaufman recently penned Adaptation (re-teaming him with Malkovich director Spike Jonze), Confessions of A Dangerous Mind (George Clooney's directorial debut, based on the "autobiography" of former Gong Show host Chuck Barris) and will again work with Gondry on a project tentatively entitled The Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, which Jim Carrey is attached to star in.
CinemaSpeak had an opportunity to chat with Kaufman at Human Nature's Los Angeles press day. Fine Line will release the film on April 12. (NOTE: This interview was conducted as part of a press round table, therefore not all questions were asked by CinemaSpeak.)
Where did this script come from?
It came from a bunch of things. I wanted to write about a feral man; I was thinking about those idolized portraits of pure people raised in nature that appear in movies a lot and I wanted to make fun of that. I'd been reading about behaviorism and culture experiments, so I was thinking about that. I also wanted to write about a woman who was on the outside and couldn't get in, so that was the hair thing, which seems to be a large issue in our country.
Do you feel our culture is obsessed with hair?
Yes. (laughs)
In what way?
In every way. You have to have it in certain places and you're not allowed to have it in other places. Especially with women, and it's happening with men now too; the idea that it's unattractive to have hair in places where you naturally have hair, just seems like such a culturally enforced notion.
Recently, it seems that if a screenwriter is successful once, they get to direct their next movie. Is that something you just don't want to do?
No, I'll do it at some point, I think -- just not yet.
What are you waiting for?
Well, I've been busy. I've been writing -- I've had a lot of assignments and things have just been piling up these past few years since before Malkovich. I've been taking care of my obligations. I need to write a spec script, because I think that's the best way to have the leverage to get to direct it. If I write an assignment, they probably won't hire me (to direct).
You don't have a stockpile of scripts?
No, I'm kind of out now. It's been a busy year for me, so that cleans it out.
How did your life change after Malkovich? Did it open doors for you?
You know, I'm sure it did. As I said, I've been working on the same bunch of scripts for the last 3 or 4 years. It's not like I'm going out trying to get new work, so it really hasn't changed. I'm dealing with Human Nature, I'm dealing with Adaptation, I'm dealing with Confessions of a Dangerous Mind. Even this movie that Michel's going to direct next (The Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind), I started writing three years ago. I know (my life) is different, but I pretty much spend time in my room and don't see it.
Were you surprised that Malkovich was such a big hit?
Well, sure -- none of us could have predicted it.
What do you attribute the success to?
I don't know; people like the movie and critics liked the movie, so it got attention. It wasn't an enormous commercial success -- it did fine, but it didn't make a lot of money. It got a lot of critical success and I don't why. People liked it and we were lucky.
What did you study in school? Were you always writing?
I went to film school at NYU, and I've always been interested in theater -- plays and films and characters and comedy.
Death To Smoochy was released recently, which was written by Adam Resnick, a fellow Get A Life alum. Did you learn a lot from working on that series?
Get A Life was my first job, and I think I was hired for that because my sense of humor was similar to the show's. I don't how much it changed me, except getting hired gave me some confidence. I hadn't been working professionally before that. Of the TV shows I've worked on, Get A Life is definitely the one that I'm most attached to. I was a staff writer on the show and Adam created the show, so the show was Adam's voice and Chris's (Elliot) voice certainly more than mine.
Talk about the process of protecting a screenplay from producers and the studio. How do you maintain the integrity of a script, whether it's Human Nature or Malkovich?
I've been very fortunate -- maybe because my stuff is odd -- that executives and producers don't really know what kind of notes to give. They can't really give the standard notes, so they have kind of left us alone.
How involved are you in the actual process of making the films? It seems that you're working in collaboration with the directors.
I think I've been lucky. I was lucky on Malkovich, because I was working with someone who respected me and wanted my opinions and input. On Human Nature, I owned the material, so I made sure that I was a producer and it gave me some sort of official authority. I think it's silly for the director to not go to the person who conceived something -- it doesn't make any sense.
How is it different working on Confessions of a Dangerous Mind, where you are doing an adaptation, as opposed to writing an original script?
That was my first assignment and I took it because it had some kind of resonance with me that this guy was telling this story that might not be true. I felt the freedom, since it might not be true, to play with it and include my own stuff in there. I liked working on the script, but it's not my preference to adapt other people's work.
What are some of your influences? Where do your stories come from?
I don't where it comes from. I read a lot and watched a lot of movies and made movies when I was kid -- Super 8 things. I was always interested in, what I thought of in junior high school, as subversive comedy, which to me at the time was National Lampoon and Monty Python; stuff that made me feel like there were kindred spirits in the world.
What are some of your favorite movies?
I really like a movie called What Happened Was..., which is by Tom Noonan; it's one of my favorite movies. I like Naked by Mike Leigh, Eraserhead, most of the Coen Brothers and David Lynch things. Ladybird, Ladybird by Ken Loach is a movie I like; Safe is a movie I like. I like a lot of movies.
As a screenwriter, how do you feel about websites that review screenplays far in advance (this question is specifically in reference to a site that reviewed Kaufman's script Adaptation)?
It was a flattering review. The problem that I had, in all honesty, was that it was a first draft that was reviewed, and fortunately it was reviewed favorably, so I could continue my work on it. After that happened, I was working on this other script that Michel was going to direct and I was petrified. I was like, "I can't turn this in, because as soon as I turn it in to a studio, it's going to be on the Internet." It's nice that it was a good review and that makes me happy, but, at the same time, it made me nervous. These things are works in progress and, until it's done, I need to be able to think of it that way.
Do you think there is too much information out there for people to see? Such as screenplays being reviewed in advance or just the fact that people know so much about a movie before they go into it.
That's a separate issue, and I'm not crazy about that, but that's more of a "how do you market a movie" issue. The other issue is personal and about how I work. If I didn't read the review and, of course, I will -- it's there -- then it probably wouldn't be a problem. I guess I have to sell my computer or something.
From your own experience do you have any advice for writers trying to get a start in TV and film?
The only advice I have, and it's really stupid and simple, but it was something that I didn't understand for a long time, is you need an agent. I didn't know that for years. You know, I worked at a place that had Steven Spielberg's address on a Rolodex, so I sent him my script and then you never hear anything or you get back some lawyer letter. When I decided to get into TV, I was very pragmatic about it. I wrote spec scripts to try and get an agent, I got an agent and then I came out here and got a job. I think that once I got a foot in the door, everything became a lot easier.
And you needed an agent to do that?
I don't know how to do without an agent. I sort of hate to say that, because philosophically it doesn't sit well with me, but it seems to be true.
Your two movies have featured good, but misguided characters (Craig in Malkovich and Nathan in Human Nature) that get comeuppances, and two mean characters who don't (Maxine in Malkovich and Gabrielle in Human Nature). Is that intentional?
The original ending to Malkovich is different, and I don't think Craig fared any better in that one, but Maxine didn't do well. I don't consciously think about that. I kind of bristle at happy endings in general, because they seem to be very seductive, but not very true. If I do that, it's not a conscious decision. There's very little conscious going on. (laughs)
It seems all of your characters have some sort of desperation. Do you approach all the characters in a way so you don't create any villains?
I don't think of anyone as villains. I try to think about, as you said, what they're desperate about and what their needs are. To me, it makes it more interesting. I like everybody in my movies.
What made you decide on Michel to direct Human Nature?
Spike (Jonze) introduced us -- Michel was interested in my work and I loved Michel's videos when I saw them. We started working together on this other project, which now he is going to be doing. Because I had to write Adaptation first, there was going to be this long delay in writing the project we are going to do together. He wanted to direct something, so he read the script and asked if he could (direct it) and I said he could. I guess it's based on the fact that there is mutual admiration.
You studied film at NYU. Was that a worthwhile experience?
I wouldn't do it again. It wasn't terrible, but I'm not sure that it helped me. It didn't help me in any sort of practical way. It's not like I got a job for 35 years after that or anything. At the time I didn't think so, but looking back, I think getting a liberal arts education (would have been more beneficial).
Were there other directors interested in doing Human Nature before Michel?
Steven Soderbergh was going to do it at one point. He actually signed on to do it, but he got Out of Sight. He optioned it and then I bought back the option. I was going to do it at one time, so I guess it interested me (laughs).
How close is this finished product to what you would have done with it?
It's different. It's definitely got a Michel feel to it. There are some similarities, but he's got his style and I was supportive of that.
As someone who knows how to direct, has it been difficult to give your scripts to other directors?
You assume I know how to direct because I went to film school? (laughs) I want to direct and I want to see what it feels like to take something from conception to completion. I know it will look different than either of the films that are out.
Do you generally feel that screenwriters are an under appreciated part of the movie making process?
Oh, yes. (laughs) Like I said before, I think it's ridiculous for a director not to think of the person who wrote the material as the collaborator. There's definitely a hierarchy, so that's frustrating. I've been fine, my situation has been good, but I know for a lot of people it isn't.
Can you talk about the story of the film you're working on with Michel?
It's about this guy, who finds out that his girlfriend of two years has had a surgical procedure, which has erased him from her memory. He's freaked out and tries to figure out how he can live with this, and he realizes that he can't, so he decides to have this same procedure. Most of the movie takes place inside his brain as she's being erased. You see their relationship moment-by-moment, backwards, from the bad end to the better beginning. About halfway through, when the memories start getting better, he decides he doesn't want to (go through with the procedure) anymore and fights to get her back. It starts shooting in November, so it'll come out in 2003.
(Source)